Interview by Jane Loughman and Melissa Wang
Photos by Gillian Cohen on FaceTime
What’s your major? Or are you undeclared?
I haven't declared my major yet, but I'm planning to declare in art history.
Where are you right now?
Shanghai.
Oh, cool! So we did stalk your Instagram and we noticed that you have a lot of really cool architectural pieces––I think one of them was of an apartment building near Barnard. Do you miss New York, and how have you and your art been affected by the change in location this year?
I definitely miss New York. It's really weird to take online classes. It's just... I feel I really need this community. I don’t know, I don't want to just take online classes, stay at home, and not do everything that I could have done on campus. Yeah, and I miss all my friends.
Tell us about your piece Melancholy. What was the story behind it? The process?
I feel like the process when I create art is very random. I usually want to express things like chaos and intensity, so there isn't always a specific topic, but rather a really ambiguous feeling. When I created this piece, I just felt… nothing. Or well, it wasn’t like I couldn’t feel anything. It felt like––I couldn’t feel happiness, nor could I feel sadness. So yeah, I wanted to create a piece to convey this complexity. What I usually do is I combine two things––I take different pieces of imagery, put them together, and try to turn them into an art piece.
Melancholy, 2018.
With this piece, I made the conscious choice to draw on rice paper because I have a very traditional, classical way of thinking, and I wanted to see that in this piece. Also, rice paper just creates a sort of barrier, between the "now” and the “then.” I connected this barrier to what I felt was a barrier between my reality and my nothingness––my consciousness.
Then, I started playing with floral imagery, because I wanted to see how they connected to this barrier. When I drew this, I did some research on the meaning of those flowers; I can’t remember exactly what it is, but I remember feeling a deep connection with those flowers while drawing them. I also played with adding more detail in the smoke and the clothes––they're so fragile, like they could just disappear anytime. You can almost catch them, but not quite; I couldn't really catch my emotion either.
The stained glass on the other hand reminded me of a Gothic cathedral. When I walk into a Gothic cathedral, I feel a sense of mystery––it is quite solid. I don't feel like I'm with others when I enter a cathedral, instead I'm fully conscious of myself.
Even though this piece is colorless, I feel like the stained glass and the flower could give some imagination of color to that piece. However, this is colorless. There’s supposed to be color, but there's no color.
Do you mean you were going to add color or that there is supposed to be color in your own interpretation of it?
Yeah, I think there should be color, for those subject matters. But I removed the color because at the time, I just didn't feel like there should be color––it's really hard to explain. I know there are a lot of things around me, but I don't really feel them. I feel silence, I feel they’re all like silence. I guess I convey soundlessness with visual elements.
You talked about how the flowers have symbolism. How much metaphor goes into the different objects you draw or paint?
I definitely think each object has its own meaning. I think that's how I create my art. I love reading and watching movies, because I tend to take different pieces of imagery and expand on them, connecting them to my emotions. For example, for the butterflies in the middle, composition-wise, I made sure to clump them all together. I think that shows how I felt confused and how I was struggling at the time. But the more important thing is how the butterflies fly off. There's a traditional story in China about a butterfly, and the butterfly in that story symbolizes dreams. So, what I want to tell is there is a kind of an interaction or a confusion between reality and dreams.
Untitled, 2019.
When we were looking at your Instagram, we noticed that you had other artworks beyond drawing and paint––what compels you to play around with different mediums?
I started to learn how to draw in kindergarten. I’d go to art class after school until high school. After that, I was always practicing my skills, but I don't see the purpose of just always improving my skill but not creating my own art. The first time I created my own art, it was a painting or sketching. But then I was like, why don't I just try it with other media? Even for paintings, I try to make it not two-dimensional but three-dimensional. So, for example, there is a piece on my Instagram which is basically a woman’s face on the right and there are several flowers on the left. This is an oil painting, and the flower is kind of like a sculpture. I used an icing pipe.
I also used some golden foils and things. I always want to experiment with different media; there are so many things I can use. Art is just so inclusive. So yeah, I just want to try stuff. It's not like I only use the one medium. For example, with this sculpture, there's this black mask in the middle of wooden boards, wooden sticks, clay, and wire. I used clay to make a mold of a human face, and then put the cloth into a liquid mix of water, glue and black watercolour. I then covered the mask in the cloth while it was still damp, and when I took it off after it had dried, the color had seeped into the mask underneath. So yeah, I use multiple media, it’s more like playtime for me when creating art. I just want to try and play with the art––it doesn't really matter to me if it fails.
Memory x Existence, 2018.
Are you ever scared of taking on bigger, more ambitious projects?
I’m pretty comfortable. For example, one of my bigger sculptures was a requirement for an architecture class at Barnard; maybe it was because it was a class requirement, [but] I didn’t feel so scared about messing up. When I wanna do something, I just do it. Like, one day I just woke up and decided I wanted to dye my hair pink. Just went to the parlor and did it. I knew it would be a big change, sure, but hair is just hair! It can grow again.
We noticed that you’ve shifted to posting more minimalistic ink sketches on your Instagram. Was this shift deliberate?
Oh yeah, those! I did those sketches for an internship. I’m working as a branding designer for a new fragrance brand––the perfume’s going to be out this month!
And in terms of a deliberate shift, I mean, sometimes I feel like my more intricate pieces are too dramatic, and more can be said with less. I know detail is usually my personal aesthetic, but I wanted to push myself and focus on basic sketching for a while.
How has 2020 affected your art and work ethic? What’s it like making art at home?
To be honest, I feel like I haven’t accomplished much. For the first part of 2020, when I was still in New York, it was fine. But now, when I’m stuck in my own room? It’s so small, and there’s no space to make art. So I’ve only been able to create really small pieces, like B5-sized.
And to be even more honest, I don’t feel like creating art. After I came back to Shanghai, I just didn’t have the energy to create anything. I mean, I know I’ll use this experience––this 2020 disaster––to make some art in the future. But now… I treat all my pieces like they’re real people, because of their connections to my own emotions. Right now, I think I’m failing at making anything because I just don’t feel anything.
Although… I’ve written some short novels? I guess that’s my version of art now. I just needed an outlet for my emotions this year, and writing’s been that outlet for me.
What are you writing about?
Basically, it's about two girls, traveling by themselves and meeting in Venice. Tying back to the way I make art, one of the girls represents who I really am: creative, reckless. But the other girl is more like my rational self. I guess they’re basically how I view myself and how I try to like, kind of control myself.
It’s a really dynamic interaction between those two. It reminds me of when, in my high school, my art teacher said that I have a controlled chaos, which is really accurate.
And I wasn’t always a “controlled-chaos” type of person. Early in high school, I was more of the “entrepreneur” type, wanting to start my own business and things. But then I became a person who just wanted to focus on art, to try different things. I guess I changed when I went to the Van Gogh museum; I mean, here was an artist who clearly died for art. I felt like he was a real artist, and that moved me. His passion for everything was just so great, and I wanted to pursue that artistic frenzy.
Why Venice?
I think the reason I put the setting in Venice is that firstly, I really like Italy. I like it a lot. And the second reason is like, I read this book by Thomas Mann, Death in Venice. It’s one of my favorite books, and passion plays a really big role in it. I think there was passion in that novel, and that was something I was trying to capture.
If you could do anything you wanted, like, what would your dream piece be? Like, your dream art piece.
My dream art piece. That's a big question.
I don't feel I would ever plan to have one. It's more like I don't want to have a dream piece. It's really weird. I feel like if I have a goal, it limits my vision. I may start to view things really narrowly and only focus on that goal––it's not realizable. Actually, when I create art, my style always changes and the final work is so different from my initial thought. I’m just wandering around and trying to fetch things and I've absorbed different ideas and created pieces. I have a feeling that my dream piece will largely involve myself, like of course it will involve myself, but myself as in my physical body. And it might not be an art piece. It could be some behavior for me. For example, I want to see how I die. It's really weird, but I guess…
I love this.
Haha, yeah. I just want to combine art with life, you know?
But hmmm, in terms of real, concrete pieces? Right now, I’m thinking of working on a music video… but I don’t know where to start. I’m planning on asking my friends who make music to see if I can do a video for them.
Where can people find your work?
They can follow my Instagram @vivisfantasy (https://www.instagram.com/vivisfantasy/)!